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Lights turn on at shutdown

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6 Posts
ctrl7 posted on 07-11-2009 5:14 PM

Our house just got an Ion to replace the Obsession we've had for twenty years. 

When we power off the console, sometimes lights will come up on stage.  The lights that come on have nothing to do with the last cue that was run.  Going to Cue 0 doesn't seem to help.

The racks are Sensors that were installed with the Obsession.

Any ideas?

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5 Posts

I am working in a theatre that has very very old ETC dimmers and they just installed an ION. We get a lamp "ghosting" about every other time we shutdown. As was mentioned, ours usually turn off after lack of DMX signal for a few mins. I have found a quick fix that seems to work is to build a sub with a mix of channels in it, bring it up just before you are ready to shutdown, bring it down, shutdown and that usually clears the DMX.

 

Top 75 Contributor
152 Posts
Verified by ctrl7

nfarwell:
... the Sensors hold the last seen DMX for 5 minutes.
How long the Sensors hold the scene is user programmable from 0-infinity seconds.  See the appropriate manual under "Data Loss Behavior."

 

Check out my site at derekleffew.com.

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Top 25 Contributor
479 Posts

I've found there's a bit of data noise when the Ion shuts down that sometimes will trigger a dimmer or two to come up.  Is that what you're seeing or is it a whole "Q" ?  Depending what the hardware looks like in between your desk and your racks you can sometimes filter it out - or at least get the racks to shut down after losing signal for X minutes. 

I've noticed this with both ION DMX ports and Net 3 Nodes..... 

Top 10 Contributor
981 Posts

I've noticed the same thing on net 3 nodes.

Marc Polimeni

Lord Chaos

Top 75 Contributor
134 Posts

This used to happen frequently when I had an Express, used with Sensor dimmers.  It was just random lights that always went to full, not a cue or any real pattern to the lights that turned back on when the board went off, but as soon as a DMX signal came back into the system, either by turning the board back on or plugging in a portable board that I had, the dimmers turned off.  I always thought it was a Sensor quirk, but I have had a Congo for two years now, and it hasn't happened since.

J. R. Lidgett Salina Community Theatre
Top 150 Contributor
77 Posts

I just started in a new house who recently acquired an ION and have run into this for the first time as well.  Patrick, you mentioned "filtering it out".... what exactly do you mean by this?  My current solution has been to have my board ops leave the console on at night but I would prefer to fix the issue and be able to fully power down.

Suggestions?

~Mark

Top 50 Contributor
272 Posts

I too, have seen this on our Sensor Racks, but not since we got the Eoses.  The random light or two would always go out harmlessly when the DMX 'timed out' after four or five minutes.

Brent Smith Tennessee Performing Arts Center
Top 75 Contributor
152 Posts

Here's the other thread where this was discussed at length: Shutdown glitch.

 

Check out my site at derekleffew.com.

Not Ranked
5 Posts

I am working in a theatre that has very very old ETC dimmers and they just installed an ION. We get a lamp "ghosting" about every other time we shutdown. As was mentioned, ours usually turn off after lack of DMX signal for a few mins. I have found a quick fix that seems to work is to build a sub with a mix of channels in it, bring it up just before you are ready to shutdown, bring it down, shutdown and that usually clears the DMX.

 

Top 150 Contributor
69 Posts

We have the same trouble with our ION.  We replaced an Obsession 600 with an ION and now we're forced to pull the DMX cables out before shutdown - sometimes the lights that come up are fine (not too saturated, etc) and sometimes they are 2k fresnels with R80 or worse.  Everyone always says "every board does that" but I think that's BS.  Our Obsession never did it.  Spurious DMX on shutdown, lovely.

It's not so bad in the other space with the new ION, it has IPS dimmers and they only flash, the Sensors hold the last seen DMX for 5 minutes.  Sigh.

 

 

 

Top 75 Contributor
152 Posts
Verified by ctrl7

nfarwell:
... the Sensors hold the last seen DMX for 5 minutes.
How long the Sensors hold the scene is user programmable from 0-infinity seconds.  See the appropriate manual under "Data Loss Behavior."

 

Check out my site at derekleffew.com.

Top 150 Contributor
69 Posts

Yeah, we have already changed it to zero seconds.  Last night, the board tripped a scenic element (a sign which drops via a solenoid) on shutdown.  Argh!

 

For Christmas, all I want is this to stop.

Top 500 Contributor
16 Posts

hello,

Many/most consoles create this for reasons well explained in the replies on this thread.

Get into the idea of turning off dimmers over-night, it's a good idea for lots of reasons.

Top 150 Contributor
69 Posts

Yeah, no.  We'll just suck it up and deal with the DMX stuff.  We're not throwing 5 sets of 400A breakers for the 5 Sensor racks every day, killing the house lights for all other users of the space, the janitor, etc.  I only gripe because the Obsession 600 Did. Not. Do. This.

 

The thread can end.

 

Top 75 Contributor
153 Posts

But I think this is a real issue...and I think it probably has a hardware solution (though it may be software.)  I believet it has to do with the DMX drivers not being disabled before being powered down, resulting is last minute crap being send down the DMX line.   It would be nice if the board in fact disabled the DMX drivers with all levels at 0 before fully powering down.  Maybe a few caps to hold the driver's power rails up a little longer than the enable line is active.

The fact is, customer don't like this "feature."  The simple solution is to disable the held levels at the dimmer rack.  Of course, not all dimmers allow that.  And some customers believe they "need" to have a hold-last-look just incase.....Also, there are installations that don't have the service size to bump all loads on at once....which can happen at power down.

So maybe we see a fix sometime soon?

Thats my 2.5 cents worth....

 

Bruce Klotz Theatrix, Inc

Top 75 Contributor
152 Posts
Suggested by TRex

I go back to what David North states in another thread.  DMX continuously streams information down the cable.  On power down all consoles stop this stream.  When the data stream is disrupted mid stream it can sometimes cause dirty data which in turn will drive DMX levels up.  Think of it like blocking a stream with a log.  There is going to be a splash.  Where that splash happens depends on when you shut down the desk.  Things to try:  Bring down the grand master, enable black out, or manually select all the channels to 0.  This way if there is a splash there is a good chance it is a value of 0. 

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