Coming from Obsession world, I used [update] frequently.
On Eos I have run into some trouble using [update] to modify cues.
Currently, I use update to modify groups, palettes & presets. I use [record only] to modify cues.
What is the difference between [update] & [record only]?
thanks, Kathy
Anne Valentino
Eos Product Line Manager
If I read your reply very slowly and carefully, it all makes sense. It's going to take a while. I definitely see the advantages of both [update] and [record only].
I'm digging the [make manual] command. Now I see the advantage of the [make absolute] command as well.
Whew! It's a lot of stuff to cram in my (tiny) head.
ciao, Kathy
Hi Kathy,
John Beatty here (Beauty/Producers nationals). How are you?
Now working as PE for Vancouver Opera and Ballet BC. Just got a new EOS and am transitioning from Obsession and Hog.
Hope you are well. How's CR?
Anne,
I come from an Obsession II and Hog background. My experience with those consoles tell me that I should make any changes to ml parameters and then update the corresponding pallette (focus preset). Will update on EOS offer this option? Changes to intensity or timing or other conventional channels I would treat the same as I would in Obs II and then either update or record cue only or record to track. Do I need to change my approach to this?
Thanks.
Ok, can I add a fourth and ever confusing one?
Ch1 at full in Q1 references Preset 3 for color, beam and focus data... i grab ch1 and change to color 4, how can I hit update and get the new color parameter to be updated into preset 3? This becomes every more detailed when Ch1 is referencing Preset 1, Ch2 is referencing Preset 2, etc etc
Ideally i want to hit "update preset" enter and have the Ch's know there source presets and then update the presets with whatever value Ive given, be it a pallet or a manual change.
Thoughts?
To ask another question raised from this: I usually work in Cue only mode for our events only because when I'm designing it's usually with more than 4 pieces in one show, and I don't want to risk the tracking from a modern piece into a ballet. In Cue only mode, does update still update the references, or does it just update the cue I'm in?
is the console, in my case the Ion, still "tracking" smartly in cue only mode, but does not in effect track values?
C. Ian C
Presets and Palettes are 'referenced' data, and nothing to do with tracking or Cue Only.
A Colour Palette is simply "This is how we make Blue" - if the Blue needs to be adjusted later, you edit the one Blue Palette and all the places it's used are automatically updated.
This same idea is applied to other palettes - A Focus Palette could be 'This is how to point at the tree', and if the director/set deisgner moves the tree you change the one Focus Palette and that updates every cue where any of the lights in that palette were aimed at the tree using that palette.
Tracking on the other hand is to do with recording and executing 'Only the things that change' - if there is no new value an attribute in the new cue, the console just leaves it alone.
In Cue Only mode, every channel is forced into the target value - one could say that 'Everything changes', even if the 'new' value is the same as the 'old' value.
A Blocking cue is a cue that again says "Everything changes" - Partial Blocking is 'These things changed'
Keep on trying till you run out of cake.
A couple of thoughts for you - if you have multiple pieces, you could:
Record each dance number into a separate cue list or
Block the first cue of each dance piece. Blocking the cue will prevent any changes from cues "upstream" from tracking into to the start of each piece. This allows you to use tracking within the dance number safely.... which is often much, much faster than managing your cues in cue only mode.
As Richard says, when you are in Cue Only mode, this only effects how changes to cues should move forward through the cue list.
If you are using referenced data, Updating this cue will, by default, also update the reference. When you modify (for example) a focus palette, you'll notice a red "R" in superscript for those parameters. This tells you that you have overridden a reference. When you update, those changes are stored back to the source, which was the palette or preset in the cue. When you update, a dialogue box opens in the CIA. One of the buttons is "Make Absolute." If you [Update] [Make Absolute] [Enter] - you will store your changes to your cue, but break the link to the reference itself. Once you have set that update style, the desk remembers it whenever you use update.
I'd recommend to you that you play around with this in blind spreadsheet, to see how edits to cues impacts your show data. While we never try to force anyone to use tracking, once you understand how tracking will work, and how the desk can protect your show data for you, it is a much more efficient way to work.
The effect issue that you bring up is addressed in the upcoming 1.5.
Hope this helps.
a
Anne Valentino: .......... Now, here's the fun part. And this is something that will be added to further mess with your mind in 1.4. Let's go back to that cue 5 above, where channel 1 is in CP2. Change channel 1 to CP5. Then modify the color value. [Update] [Enter] - what are you updating? CP2 (which is the stored palette in the cue) or CP5 (the last color you'd applied manually). After polling a group of programmers globally, the verdict was split. Eos' current logic, which is to update to the source, would say that you are updating CP2. That is how it works now and that will continue to be the default behavior. But we will add an option in 1.4 to allow you to update to the last applied reference instead. Hope this helps!! a
Hi Anne
Was trolling through the forum and spotted this post. I'm firmly in the camp that update should update my last applied reference, not the source (but then I'm Strand background, so I would be! We all just want it to work the way we know!), but I haven't spotted the option to do this in any of the latest software releases, am I missing it? Or is it still to come?
Thanks
Warren.
Hey Warren.... this will be going into 1.7.
Thanks!!
Rather than be confronted with what updating a reference will do to the overall show, and having 4 seconds to decide this before the next GO, I prefer to use UPDATE MAKE ABSOLUTE, that way all data is preserved until I can clean it up later. I can use RECALL FROM CUE # to retrieve the values if necessary.
Of course moving absolutes values into a palette/preset in blind can be tricky because the console masks the real dmx levels (especially pan and tilt), making it more difficult to determine if those values match what's in the palette.
What we need is the computer to search for us. I envision a syntax like : CHAN 1 FOCUS LIKE FP1 REPLACE WITH FP1<ENTER>. Do this in BLIND SPREADSHEET and you practically done already.
I think moving absolutes into references after the fact would be way better than constructing a boatload of speculative palettes for things like iris size, when the LD just wants you to turn the knob.